I want to walk you through how I changed my beliefs around LGBTQ+ issues over 30 years. Not all at once. Not in rebellion. Not for attention. Just slowly… painfully… honestly.
The moment I realized I'm bisexual was a freeing moment. It allowed me to believe that being the way I am is still ok no matter who, if anyone, else agreed with me. I'm still closeted with most people in my life though because of growing up the same way you did and getting push back about certain groups I joined on FB that were pro LGBT spaces. Glad to share this about myself with someone else who won't judge me for it.
I have come to the same conclusion. There were a few books I read that helped me see another side of this issue that the church never told me about, but just the fact that God is love and does not exclude was the main thing. I also thought about why anyone would choose to be LGBTQ and go through the hate and exclusion they are so often shown. If God loves all of us unconditionally, and we are all created in the image of God, then I want to love and accept all people no matter what.
** UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin
** God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines
** Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee
** Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White
** The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley
Realizing I could just say “I disagree with Paul” was one of the most freeing moments of my life. I’d been affirming in my heart for years and suffered torment every time I had to pretend to believe something my spirit screamed against. Thank you for this!
Thanks for the article. I've had a similar journey with a twist; my body has never produced testosterone and I only went thru puberty with artificial treatment at age 23. Up to that time, I adhered to the "homosexuals go to hell" doctrine without question. But after my first treatment, I suddenly became attracted to men...though I liked breasts as well, to be a bit vulgar. And I tried therapy...that's a funny story by itself...and even stopped treatment for a while, which involves serious bodily risks. By the time I was at the Vineyard Church for several years, I had softened a lot, questioning doctrines and suspicious of authority figures. Then I was fired from being an Alpha coach because I mentioned at the table that I did not think that Gay marriage was wrong. It's taken me half a century to even begin to accept myself the way I am and to honestly accept others as they are. Deano
Dean - wow, thank you so much for your vulnerability and trusting me and the others here to hear you story. That's no small act of bravery. I'm so gald you're here with us.
About 10 years ago, I and my family were attending an upscale non-denominational evangelical church that I grew up in. There was a missionary preaching one Sunday about evangelizing in the former Yugoslav / Balkans region. He started talking about how the EU was "forcing" LGTBQ+ acceptance in the region, and how the appropriate response to the "gay agenda" was physical violence against anyone LGTBQ+. People around us began clapping, cheering, and giving a standing ovation. It just felt so wrong. We left and never looked back. Since then we've landed at a progressive UMC church, I'm still figuring out what I believe versus what was programmed all those years.
I faced it fully the first time my daughter claimed she was bi. Then she wasn't, then was, then...
So, I had to hit it.
And I know all the arguments (biblically) for an against.
So, I postulated a new theory. What if it's something that's an Old Testament decree because it ran contrary to the "go forward and populate" mandate? And now no longer applies? Again, just theory. We are pretty populated on this planet.
Thank you, Joe, for making this one of your first issues to tackle. When my (then) son came out as transgender about 3 years ago, there were a lot of feelings. Lots. Grief for losing the person I thought of as my son for 25+ years. Abject fear of what would happen to my new daughter, the worries about suicide and assault. Concern about how her brother would take it, and his new fiancé's family. How the rest of the family would take it. Dread for all the conversations to come. Awkwardness at using new pronouns, and on and on. So many, many feelings.
And, also, the cognitive dissonance of what the church says is a sin and the pride I felt at what I knew was a profoundly brave act my kid had made. Somehow, I just knew the loving God I believed in still loved my (now) daughter. That he made her, inside and out, and who's to say which is correct and which is the "mistake"? Maybe nothing about my beautiful child is a mistake, how about that?
So, I've slowly come to the place where I think Paul is wrong and Leviticus is wrong, and the whole thing is just wrong. And I've been grateful that pretty much everyone in our life, including our Christian friends, when they learn about our daughter, nod, carefully ask how we feel about that, and when they learn that we support our daughter, join in and support us. But I think that's more a testament to my husband's and my choice of friends, and not an endorsement of the tolerance of the larger church.
So, yeah, I'm deconstructing, because I just can't square a loving God full of grace with one who would punish someone for being the person they are, inside and out.
Thank you, Joe. As I suspected, your experience mirrors mine in many ways—seeing people I cared about being hurt and ostracized didn’t sit well. I kept thinking: Jesus wouldn’t handle people that way. Jesus professes love for all. Jesus leads with love and guides people as they work through their struggles.
Which brings me back to the question: Is it a sin to be gay? Like you, I don’t believe Jesus ever said it was. That came from Paul—a Pharisee who never knew Jesus during His lifetime and wasn’t one of the original disciples. Someone who’s writing reflects some of the law that Jesus came to abolish. (Head scratcher!)
This also ties back to the reason I was de-churched for years: racism. I started life in a diverse community but was moved to an all white school when I was still young. As a teenager, when a Black girl finally joined our school, I saw what racism really looked like—and religion was at the center of it. I was being taught love but shown the opposite.
So I struggle with using the Bible to justify any kind of division or hate. I hope that is Jesus in me. That he is at the forefront of those feelings, cuz it as you stated about 1 step mentor, two steps heretic (adding the throwing of tables, lol).
I am thankful in my own story that I went through some anti-racist work a few years prior to the George Floyd summer. For me it showed me that I hadn't yet deconstructed at all on that issue and was blind to my own racist actions and beliefs. I had a lot of hope for us as a culture back then actually. Much less now, sadly.
That’s pretty profound… the idea of “disagree(ing) with Paul.” Or anyone else in this written narrative of the Christian faith. I’ll be thinking on that for a bit. You’ve cracked something open there for me. Thanks, Joe. 🙂
Thanks Joe!!! My deconstruction began when I found out a pastor had told my daughter that God hated her for being gay. At that point I was so upset and angry. I decided if he hated my daughter, then he hated me. And that’s that. It has taken a few years to come to realize God loves all of us and no one here on earth knows everything.
I’m a former Pentecostal pastor who had many of the same struggles in this and the other theological constraints you mention.
What I taught, was taught to me. The research for my messages and counseling came from the same “box”. I was instructed to “stay in your lane”. Anything outside that was heresy.
I haven’t stood in a pulpit for almost 8 years, and the churches that would have me speak then, wouldn’t recognize who I am now…
I’m still on that path of reconstruction, and it is so freeing! Being inclusive and affirming and recognizing that it is ok to have a different theology, gives me more opportunity to share Jesus’ example of grace and kindness without the judgmental barrier that had been in place.
Thanks for sharing, I am sure it was quite challenging to do, even with years of contemplation. I think one of the biggest challenges we face in today’s world is people digging in their heals with dogma. Dogma or toeing the line is definitely an easier path, but a life lived will require willingness to go against the grain.
I agree for sure. Dogmatisim is a way to make ideas more important than people and lived experiences. But it feels a lot safer to always know you are always right. :)
For me it was, a grandchild, a niece and a cousin.
I was forcing myself to believe something I always felt in my soul was wrong to believe but because of what the Bible said I thought that’s what a Christian had to do. I have said out loud this past year I support the LGBTQ community. Certainly at the very least their civil rights need protection but they deserve so much more.
I remember when I was a pastor and I received a phone call from a gay man asking if he would be welcome at our church. I said, "Definitely! We'd love to have you." Then I added some stupid line like, "Of course you'll have to deal with that issue." I don't remember exactly how I phrased it, but that was the essence. "You're welcome...as long as...."
He called back a few minutes later and rebuked me for hating gay people.
I've never forgotton that conversation and to this day I regret my words. It's one of those moments when you can visualize exactly where you were and what you were doing. I'm also thankful for his rebuke.
That was the beginning of my deconstruction of the LTBTQ+ issue. Even as I spoke the words to this brother, I knew in my heart that I was wrong. But it was many years before I was able to work through it and come to an affirming position.
The moment I realized I'm bisexual was a freeing moment. It allowed me to believe that being the way I am is still ok no matter who, if anyone, else agreed with me. I'm still closeted with most people in my life though because of growing up the same way you did and getting push back about certain groups I joined on FB that were pro LGBT spaces. Glad to share this about myself with someone else who won't judge me for it.
Tara, thank you so much for trusting me and the community here with your story. That’s what this is all about. ❤️
I have come to the same conclusion. There were a few books I read that helped me see another side of this issue that the church never told me about, but just the fact that God is love and does not exclude was the main thing. I also thought about why anyone would choose to be LGBTQ and go through the hate and exclusion they are so often shown. If God loves all of us unconditionally, and we are all created in the image of God, then I want to love and accept all people no matter what.
** UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin
** God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines
** Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee
** Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White
** The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Jeff Miner and John Tyler Connoley
Love this, Michael! And Colby is a friend of mine. :) Glad his book connected with you.
I need to add these books to my reading list!
Thank you for this list!
Realizing I could just say “I disagree with Paul” was one of the most freeing moments of my life. I’d been affirming in my heart for years and suffered torment every time I had to pretend to believe something my spirit screamed against. Thank you for this!
Yuo're welcome, Shari. I totally get what you mean.
Damn. Once again, so good!
:)
Thanks for the article. I've had a similar journey with a twist; my body has never produced testosterone and I only went thru puberty with artificial treatment at age 23. Up to that time, I adhered to the "homosexuals go to hell" doctrine without question. But after my first treatment, I suddenly became attracted to men...though I liked breasts as well, to be a bit vulgar. And I tried therapy...that's a funny story by itself...and even stopped treatment for a while, which involves serious bodily risks. By the time I was at the Vineyard Church for several years, I had softened a lot, questioning doctrines and suspicious of authority figures. Then I was fired from being an Alpha coach because I mentioned at the table that I did not think that Gay marriage was wrong. It's taken me half a century to even begin to accept myself the way I am and to honestly accept others as they are. Deano
Dean - wow, thank you so much for your vulnerability and trusting me and the others here to hear you story. That's no small act of bravery. I'm so gald you're here with us.
About 10 years ago, I and my family were attending an upscale non-denominational evangelical church that I grew up in. There was a missionary preaching one Sunday about evangelizing in the former Yugoslav / Balkans region. He started talking about how the EU was "forcing" LGTBQ+ acceptance in the region, and how the appropriate response to the "gay agenda" was physical violence against anyone LGTBQ+. People around us began clapping, cheering, and giving a standing ovation. It just felt so wrong. We left and never looked back. Since then we've landed at a progressive UMC church, I'm still figuring out what I believe versus what was programmed all those years.
Wow, James. I mean "Jim." :) That's pretty terrible. It does my heart good to know you found a place where you feel at home, though.
wow, what a terrible place, to applaud the violence. In the name of their peculiar god. Yikes.
Love love love this!
I faced it fully the first time my daughter claimed she was bi. Then she wasn't, then was, then...
So, I had to hit it.
And I know all the arguments (biblically) for an against.
So, I postulated a new theory. What if it's something that's an Old Testament decree because it ran contrary to the "go forward and populate" mandate? And now no longer applies? Again, just theory. We are pretty populated on this planet.
never heard that one exactly, but as I've been saying....whatever works :)
Thank you, Joe, for making this one of your first issues to tackle. When my (then) son came out as transgender about 3 years ago, there were a lot of feelings. Lots. Grief for losing the person I thought of as my son for 25+ years. Abject fear of what would happen to my new daughter, the worries about suicide and assault. Concern about how her brother would take it, and his new fiancé's family. How the rest of the family would take it. Dread for all the conversations to come. Awkwardness at using new pronouns, and on and on. So many, many feelings.
And, also, the cognitive dissonance of what the church says is a sin and the pride I felt at what I knew was a profoundly brave act my kid had made. Somehow, I just knew the loving God I believed in still loved my (now) daughter. That he made her, inside and out, and who's to say which is correct and which is the "mistake"? Maybe nothing about my beautiful child is a mistake, how about that?
So, I've slowly come to the place where I think Paul is wrong and Leviticus is wrong, and the whole thing is just wrong. And I've been grateful that pretty much everyone in our life, including our Christian friends, when they learn about our daughter, nod, carefully ask how we feel about that, and when they learn that we support our daughter, join in and support us. But I think that's more a testament to my husband's and my choice of friends, and not an endorsement of the tolerance of the larger church.
So, yeah, I'm deconstructing, because I just can't square a loving God full of grace with one who would punish someone for being the person they are, inside and out.
Carolyn - thank you so much for taking the time to share your story of our daughter. I am very happy you are here with us to add your voice.
Thank you, Joe. As I suspected, your experience mirrors mine in many ways—seeing people I cared about being hurt and ostracized didn’t sit well. I kept thinking: Jesus wouldn’t handle people that way. Jesus professes love for all. Jesus leads with love and guides people as they work through their struggles.
Which brings me back to the question: Is it a sin to be gay? Like you, I don’t believe Jesus ever said it was. That came from Paul—a Pharisee who never knew Jesus during His lifetime and wasn’t one of the original disciples. Someone who’s writing reflects some of the law that Jesus came to abolish. (Head scratcher!)
This also ties back to the reason I was de-churched for years: racism. I started life in a diverse community but was moved to an all white school when I was still young. As a teenager, when a Black girl finally joined our school, I saw what racism really looked like—and religion was at the center of it. I was being taught love but shown the opposite.
So I struggle with using the Bible to justify any kind of division or hate. I hope that is Jesus in me. That he is at the forefront of those feelings, cuz it as you stated about 1 step mentor, two steps heretic (adding the throwing of tables, lol).
I am thankful in my own story that I went through some anti-racist work a few years prior to the George Floyd summer. For me it showed me that I hadn't yet deconstructed at all on that issue and was blind to my own racist actions and beliefs. I had a lot of hope for us as a culture back then actually. Much less now, sadly.
That’s pretty profound… the idea of “disagree(ing) with Paul.” Or anyone else in this written narrative of the Christian faith. I’ll be thinking on that for a bit. You’ve cracked something open there for me. Thanks, Joe. 🙂
It's was a big domino to fall for me. Maybe the biggest.
Thank you Joe. So much.
❤️
Thanks Joe!!! My deconstruction began when I found out a pastor had told my daughter that God hated her for being gay. At that point I was so upset and angry. I decided if he hated my daughter, then he hated me. And that’s that. It has taken a few years to come to realize God loves all of us and no one here on earth knows everything.
❤️
Thank you Joe!
I’m a former Pentecostal pastor who had many of the same struggles in this and the other theological constraints you mention.
What I taught, was taught to me. The research for my messages and counseling came from the same “box”. I was instructed to “stay in your lane”. Anything outside that was heresy.
I haven’t stood in a pulpit for almost 8 years, and the churches that would have me speak then, wouldn’t recognize who I am now…
I’m still on that path of reconstruction, and it is so freeing! Being inclusive and affirming and recognizing that it is ok to have a different theology, gives me more opportunity to share Jesus’ example of grace and kindness without the judgmental barrier that had been in place.
Patrick - thanks for being here and sharing your story! There are a lot of us on similar paths.
Thanks for sharing, I am sure it was quite challenging to do, even with years of contemplation. I think one of the biggest challenges we face in today’s world is people digging in their heals with dogma. Dogma or toeing the line is definitely an easier path, but a life lived will require willingness to go against the grain.
I agree for sure. Dogmatisim is a way to make ideas more important than people and lived experiences. But it feels a lot safer to always know you are always right. :)
For me it was, a grandchild, a niece and a cousin.
I was forcing myself to believe something I always felt in my soul was wrong to believe but because of what the Bible said I thought that’s what a Christian had to do. I have said out loud this past year I support the LGBTQ community. Certainly at the very least their civil rights need protection but they deserve so much more.
Real people we love have a wife of clarifying what we really believe about some things. ❤️
I remember when I was a pastor and I received a phone call from a gay man asking if he would be welcome at our church. I said, "Definitely! We'd love to have you." Then I added some stupid line like, "Of course you'll have to deal with that issue." I don't remember exactly how I phrased it, but that was the essence. "You're welcome...as long as...."
He called back a few minutes later and rebuked me for hating gay people.
I've never forgotton that conversation and to this day I regret my words. It's one of those moments when you can visualize exactly where you were and what you were doing. I'm also thankful for his rebuke.
That was the beginning of my deconstruction of the LTBTQ+ issue. Even as I spoke the words to this brother, I knew in my heart that I was wrong. But it was many years before I was able to work through it and come to an affirming position.
Thanks for sharing your story!
Wow a powerful story. I’m sure I did the same sort of things often.